Collapse faster, please. Sick of ai bullshit clogging up my searches.
The Internet is fucked now, the only valuable untainted training data is the Internet as it existed prior to this AI bullshit coming online. Confirmed human content is going to be super valuable, so expect our privacy to be fucked as well…
Did anyone take a copy?
The Internet Archive has some.
Even that is going to turn into a shit show … It will become a copy of a copy of a copy of a backup of a backup of a copy and all of it will just get rendered down to some common basics based on whatever the hell was marketed and promoted by bots
The collapse won’t stop ai output from spamming the internet though. It will just make it worse and more likely to be incorrect
We can just stop checking the internet for things
Really though, is does anyone know if/how Wikipedia is protecting itself from this?
It’s not going to. It’s just going to get more widespread and harder to detect. The incentives favor developing better and better AI. Luckily one of the solutions to this issue is - wait for it - AI. With a good enough AI, especially a generally intelligent one you don’t need search engines anymore. You just ask and it gives you the answer. If you think AI couldn’t do this reliably then that is not the AI I’m talking about.
Maybe we need to label AI-generated content to, you know, avoid confusion.
Sorry, best we can do is a race to the bottom fueled by greed and incompetence.
That will be a refeshing change.
That’s what has been happening, and is likely what will continue to happen. Not much change there really…
Yes that’s the joke.
Wouldn’t it have to be funny to be a joke?
Oh goody. I’ve been wanting to use this since my slashdot days… today is my first chance!
Your post advocates a [x] technical [ ] legislative [ ] market-based [ ] vigilante approach to fighting (ML-generated) spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. [One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.] [ ] Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses [ ] Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected [ ] No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money [ ] It is defenseless against brute force attacks [ ] It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it [ ] Users of email will not put up with it [x] Microsoft will not put up with it [ ] The police will not put up with it [x] Requires too much cooperation from spammers [x] Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once [ ] Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers [ ] Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists [ ] Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business Specifically, your plan fails to account for [ ] Laws expressly prohibiting it [x] Lack of centrally controlling authority for email^W ML algorithms [ ] Open relays in foreign countries [ ] Ease of searching tiny alphanumeric address space of all email addresses [x] Asshats [ ] Jurisdictional problems [ ] Unpopularity of weird new taxes [ ] Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money [ ] Huge existing software investment in SMTP [ ] Susceptibility of protocols other than SMTP to attack [ ] Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email [ ] Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes [x] Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches [x] Extreme profitability of spam [ ] Joe jobs and/or identity theft [ ] Technically illiterate politicians [ ] Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with spammers [x] Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves [ ] Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering [x] Outlook and the following philosophical objections may also apply: [x] Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been shown practical [ ] Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable [ ] SMTP headers should not be the subject of legislation [ ] Blacklists suck [ ] Whitelists suck [ ] We should be able to talk about Viagra without being censored [ ] Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud [ ] Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks [ ] Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually [ ] Sending email should be free [x] Why should we have to trust you and your servers? [ ] Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses [x] Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem [ ] Temporary/one-time email addresses are cumbersome [ ] I don't want the government reading my email [ ] Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough Furthermore, this is what I think about you: [x] Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work. [ ] This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it. [ ] Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!I traced this baby back to January 19th, 2004: https://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt
Oh, do me next, do me. Open source adversarial models trained to detect and actively label things which it detects as belonging to AI. Probably would end up looking like a browser extension or something. Ublock, but for AI, basically.
Sounds like something an advanced language learning model would say…
It’s important to understand that a language modelling AI can only produce responses based on its inputs.
Sounds great, how do we enforce it?
If the AIs want to avoid digital incest they’ll enforce it for themselves.
Far too late for that now.
Most people here don’t understand what this is saying.
We’ve had “pure” human generated data, verifiably so since LLMs and ImageGen didn’t exist. Any bot generated data was easily filterable due to lack of sophistication.
ChatGPT and SD3 enter the chat, generate nearly indistinguishable data from humans, but with a few errors here and there. These errors while few, are spectacular and make no sense to the training data.
2 years later, the internet is saturated with generated content. The old datasets are like gold now, since none of the new data is verifiably human.
This matters when you’ve played with local machine learning and understand how these machines “think”. If you feed an AI generated set to an AI as training data, it learns the mistakes as well as the data. Every generation it’s like mutations form until eventually it just produces garbage.
Training models on generated sets slowly by surely fail without a human touch. Scale this concept to the net fractionally. When 50% of your dataset is machine generated, 50% of your new model trained on it will begin to deteriorate. Do this long enough and that 50% becomes 60 to 70 and beyond.
Human creativity and thought have yet to be replicated. These models have no human ability to be discerning or sleep to recover errors. They simply learn imperfectly and generate new less perfect data in a digestible form.
For a rough approach, imagine a parrot taught by another parrot, which was in turn taught by another parrot which was taught by a human.
Sure, some things might survive as somewhat understandable vaguelly human sounding sentences, but overall it’s still going to be pretty bad a few parrots down the chain.
Looks like we need Low-Background-Content
Can you explain further more ? Sorry I may understand but not sure
Low Background Radiation Steel was/is valuable, because it’s made of steel from before nuclear testing. As the bombs contaminated the produced steel.
In the same sense, anything before the creation of LLMs would be considered “low background radiation” content, as that’s the only content to be sure to be made without LLMs in the loop
I like the concept and analogy, thanks for explanations 🙏
I can just take a picture with my phone whenever I want. This is a bad analogy
My team has been calling models that use ai generated data “Habsberg models”
I feel there is a good joke here, but I miss the knowledge to understand it. Care to enlighten me?
The Habsburg royal family line was famously inbred with a distinctive chin.
For anyone curious on how bad it got look up the coroners report on Charles of Spain. Its fucken grizzly.
I mean it makes sense. Machine learning is fantastic at noticing patterns, and the stuff they generate most definitely do have patterns. We might not notice them, but the models will pick up on them and eventually, if you keep training them on that data, they’ll skew more and more in that direction.
They’ve been marketing things like there isn’t a limit to how good these things can get, but there is. Nothing is infinite.
Legend says that humans developed pattern finding as a skill ages ago…
I’ve tried to make this point several times to folks in the industry. I work in AI, and yet every time I approach some people with “you know it ultimately just repeats patterns”, I’m met with scoffs and those people telling me I’m just not “seeing the big picture”.
But I am, and the truth is that there are limits. This tech is not the digital singularity the marketers and business goons want everyone to think it is.
That’s it! I’m starting my own internet, with blackjack. And hookers.
Its funny how something like this get posted every few days and people keep falling for it like its somehow going to end AI. The people that make these models are acutely aware of how to avoid model collapse.
It’s totally fine for AI models to train on AI generated content that is of high enough quality. Part of the research to train models is building data sets with a text description matching the content, and filtering out content that is not organic enough (or even specifically including it as a ‘bad’ example for the AI to avoid). AI can produce material indistinguishable from human work, and it produces material that wasn’t originally in the training data. There’s no reason that can’t be good training data itself.
Especially since they can just pay someone to sit down and sift through it, or re-use the old training data that they already have from before it all blew up.
The “solutions” to model collapse - essentially retraining on the original data set - suggests LLMs plateau or deteriorate. Especially without a way to separate out good and bad quality data (or ad they euohemistically try and say human vs AI data).
Were increasingly seeing the limitations and flaws with LLMs. “Hallucinations” or better described as serious errors, model collapse and complete collapse suggest the current approach to LLMs is probably not going to lead to some gone of general AI. We have models we don’t really understand that have fundamental flaws and limitations.
Unsurprising that they probably can’t live up to the hype.
Even if it will plateau, same was said with moorrs law, which held up way longer than expected. There are so many ways to improve this. Open source community is getting to the point where you can actually run decent models on normal private hardware (talking about 70-120b model)
Anecdotally speaking, I’ve been suspecting this was happening already with code related AI as I’ve been noticing a pretty steep decline in code quality of the code suggestions various AI tools have been providing.
Some of these tools, like GitHub’s AI product, are trained on their own code repositories. As more and more developers use AI to help generate code and especially as more novice level developers rely on AI to help learn new technologies, more of that AI generated code is getting added to the repos (in theory) that are used to train the AI. Not that all AI code is garbage, but there’s enough that is garbage in my experience, that I suspect it’s going to be a garbage in, garbage out affair sans human correction/oversight. Currently, as far as I can tell, these tools aren’t really using much in the way of good metrics to rate whether the code they are training on is quality or not, nor whether it actually even works or not.
More and more often I’m getting ungrounded output (the new term for hallucinations) when it comes to code, rather than the actual helpful and relevant stuff that had me so excited when I first started using these products. And I worry that it’s going to get worse. I hope not, of course, but it is a little concerning when the AI tools are more consistently providing useless / broken suggestions.
Back when i was though concept art as a subject at college my teacher had a name for this.
“Incest” cause every generation of art that references other art becomes more and more strange looking and detached from reality.
If you thought Skyrim weapons look ridiculous you should have seen my classmates Skyrim inspired weapons.
If you think that looked ridiculous, you should have seen the Skyrim weapons inspired by your classmates weapons.
It would be hilarious if we entered the deep fried Marquaud era of ai where responses degenerate into rehashed responses that just get progressively more jumbled and unintelligible as the models cannibalise each other’s generated content
Like a billion hours of YouTube videos out there I am not seeing the issue plus the entire library of Congress
