The first desktop version, Mac OS X 10.0, was released on March 24, 2001. Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard and all releases from OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion to macOS 14 Sonoma are UNIX 03 certified
I don’t like MacOS, but it’s actually able to be called UNIX.
I’m surprised you don’t lose Unix certification with crap like case insensitive filesystem defaults.
Being able to be called Unix just means paying for certification. No more, no less.
I mean Mac OS has its place. There’s a reason so many music producers and coders choose that OS. It’s a rock solid stable approach for those use cases.
That being said, personally I would always prefer Linux but that’s mostly because I don’t do those things.
I don’t even particularly hate windows, I just like PopOS better
I’m a dev and I mainly see issues with removed… Every update breaks some tools the cli tools are ancient, homebrew is slow as hell and breaks quite often, docker is really slow and costs money if you don’t know how to avoid that, it’s very expensive to get to a certain amount of RAM that costs nothing on PC and so on.
Homebrew recently broke for me permanently on a macbook because it was made in 2013 and is now blocked from upgrading, so xcode no longer can be upgraded…Which means lots of other shit also no longer works. Including homebrew. Soon have to put a distro on it, I guess.
I was starting to get issues with a macbook from 2012 (specifically homebrew / xcode) when I upgraded. I’m going to be honest: Having a powerhouse of a machine for 10 years before it becomes obsolete, I’m not going to complain for one second. Got myself a new macbook, and it runs like the wind. Works seamlessly with all the tools I need in an environment where we rely on gfortran / gcc, and a lot of my coworkers use Linux.
To be fair: Part of the reason I waited for so long before upgrading was that I was waiting for them to ditch the butterfly keyboard / touchbar, and get some ports back into the machine. Once they did that I was sold. My only issue with macbooks would be the absurd price for an adequate amount of RAM, but as far as having a good computer, once it’s paid for it’s fantastic.
Docker costs money? What?
The docker desktop does. It is very tricky to install docker without it on the Mac.
You can try installing it on GitHub actions for your CI runs with the Mac runner. It can be done, but takes forever, is hacky and breaks very often.
MacOS is UNIX™
So is there a linux circlejerk? Cause you’re just ridiculous with your tribalist shit…
Yeah, macos is pretty based. I don’t own a Mac product but I have and they were great.
Based on what?
Based on BaSeD. Try and keep up.
bsd
I use both Linux and MacOS. MacOS is pretty good, but it’s also very weird in the Unix world.
“Very weird to the UNIX world”??? It’s the only one that’s actually UNIX.
The only complaints on this entire post are down to people that have no idea what they’re doing. It’s full-on Dunning-Krueger. There are plenty of training wheels, but they are trivial to disable/bypass if needed. People need to get a lot more comfortable with justifying their preferences with “I don’t like it” rather than inventing problems and proving their own ignorance.
It’s the only one that’s actually UNIX.
Uh, no. I mean, yes it’s actually Unix, but so is BSD. In fact, OSX is only Unix BECAUSE BSD is - Darwin is BSD derived
Apple paid to license the trademark. The various BSD projects didn’t.
BSD is, FreeBSD and OpenBSD (and every other open-source descendant) are not unix-certified, so they are not. BSD was discontinued in 1995 so I assumed that was not what the meme is referencing.
I honestly don’t see why, when I’m looking for help on some problem on a mac, I’ll happily open a Linux forum, and throw whatever commands I need into the terminal. Works like a charm every time. Just replace
aptwithbrewor some other reasonable package manager (idk if macports or whatever is actually any decent, never tried it)
I vividly remember when a friend of mine who runs a small graphic design studio was sent an archive file macOS couldn’t open natively and asked me for help. Never having used a Mac and without any clue as to which tools the stupid app shop (which was rather new at the time) held, I couldn’t for the life.of me get the blasted thing to obey me, until I found a terminal. I then installed build utils and compiled the frickin’ unpacker I needed myself since it only had Linux binaries. Worked like a charm.
I think it’s gotten better, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the countless times MacOS was too stupid to recognize a file type, and absolutely rejected all attempts to tell it what it was. I almost always found a way around it, but it would sometimes take dozens of minutes of fighting with the OS; these times almost made me long for Windows.
Apple’s position that users are fucking idiots may be usually justified, but they consistently violate the “… and make the uncommon possible” rule. The philosophy that the OS is always right is frustrating.
Our phones aren’t bad at reception, you are holding them wrong
Next time, just install hombrew 😇 in the terminal, of course
I can agree that fighting apples UI’s can get frustrating (i.e. playing the “try to find the right button” game). What makes me think macs are great is that you get all the freedom you could wish for in a terminal that is unix-compliant, while also getting the reliability of a hugely widespread OS that a bunch of good developers are paid to maintain. With the new macs you also get the apple silicon hardware, which is great.
I think most people that use macs indeed do need the safety rails, but at the same time they bother me. I know how to disable them within 15 mins of setting up my computer, but if I’m helping someone with an issue, I sometimes first need to spend some time disabling safety nets and installing the tools I need. Also: Shoving iCloud storage down my throat is shit. They should stop that.
As a macOS user I don’t agree.
Me: “ls ~/Downloads”, mac-gui: Would you like to give “Terminal” access to the “Downloads” folder?
Ok, it’s true that you have to spend 15 mins after setting up to “install developer tools”, and remove some safety rails. However, the mac doesn’t prevent you from doing that, and doesn’t really even try to make it hard (if you’ve ever touched a terminal before). Once it’s set up, you’re good to go…
Depends on what you are doing. My company was using clang for c++ compilation and it was a drag to make all this clicks for each .so every is update. And there is no way to automate the process. And those occasional compatibility breaks didn’t help either.
what do you mean? clang is a command line tool, can’t you write some cmake and a bash script to automate the build process? That’s what I always do when I writing any C++ that needs to be compiled/updated fairly regularly.
As a carrot I half-agree.
What is wrong with the Mac? Is the only device that that makes me feel attached to Linux somehow.
There’s nothing wrong with it if you like it. At work, our servers are windows and I hate them. IN my home lab, I have a couple of guinea pig windows servers to play with and my actual home stack run on various flavors of linux - mainly ubuntu and centos. My gaming rig is windows because i just want to play the game, not play learn how to make the game run. And my workstation that I sit in front of and work at every day is a Mac because at work my job is to fix other people’s shit, and I don’t want to have to fix my own workstation in the middle of a client’s fire like my old windows workstation did to me many a time. I also don’t want to have to learn weird ways to do basic tasks when I’m on the clock like I do with my linux laptop. Every OS has a way that is shines, and if your use case aligns don’t let anybody make you feel bad about it.
Linux but perverted version
Well if you put it like that I just want it more…
I mean macos is Unix certified. But *nix systems are better.
Eh, as long as you don’t update it its extremely stable. And it’s a UNIX system so you can still do shenanigans if you’re still inclined.
That is an interesting sentence: as long as you don’t update it’s extremely stable
But this is more about macOS having no package manager (officially), telemetry and such
I know, and trust me, I hate Apple for essentially breaking my computer after an update. But I had my MacBook for 6 years now, use it daily, and have no hiccups other wise.
Yeah, back when I was playing around with terminal not having a package manager was a huge pain in the ass.
Do you know about Brew?
At the time I couldn’t get it to work. It’s been years though
I still don’t get the love for package managers.
As a windows and Mac user who has tried to use Linux multiple times I can’t stand the centralized managers. They never have what I need and then it ends up out of date and not working.
Is there some hidden benefit I’m missing? Because sourcing from the developer seems like the much better way to do it like Mac and Windows.
Easy: Nothing beats the simplicity of
brew install whateverorapt install whatever, and then havingwhateverjust work, in my experience, pretty much every single time.1.Security 2.Up to date depends on distro, rolling releases have more up to date software 3. Convenience: just open the app center and click install
Security: if they leave checksums on their website I don’t see how it’s any more secure
Up to date: I definitely haven’t had this experience. Multiple times on arch I had issues where an outdated repo caused an app to not be able to boot
Convenience: That’s subjective. I’ve never really seen much convenience from an all in one solution for anything. I find it more of a hassle to find the distro specific manager that has a terrible UI rather than just downloading directly off a web page
snow leopard was damn near perfect, then they fucked it up
Had to show a person today how to install Nextcloud. Literally Nextcloud and we couldnt find a way to move to the home folder. Its somewhere in a menu but damn macos is fucking weird, like a toy.
I always thought it was like “the apple unix” or “the better ios which doesnt suck” but actually it seems just as locked down and childish like a toy.
People are used to that?? Damn we are fucked
As Richard Stallman said: Steve Jobs created a cage and made it so shiny that millions of people want to be trapped in it (From memory so not exact, just search Richard Stallman Apple fanboys are fools)
MacOS gets much more fluid to use when you memorize the keyboard commands. Command+Shift+G in the Finder brings up a menu where you can type any path you want, including ~
cd ~/ && open .
idk how hard or unintuitive that is?
I don’t mind MacOS
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MacOS is way worse than Windows.
mac is way more new user friendly and polished though
